Transcripts from #TheInSite
The following transcript was recorded on
Thusday 2nd April 1998
with Detective Jim McLaughlin of
©1997-2018 Electric Eggplant
Session Start: Thu Apr 02 17:28:18 1998
GalaxCCC: TheInSite Presents :
GalaxCCC: "CyberSafety with our guest
GalaxCCC: Detective Jim McLaughlin
GalaxCCC: Please join our Conference for
GalaxCCC: this timely topic about cyberspace!
GalaxCCC: Welcome, everyone, and especially to
GalaxCCC: you, Jim McLaughlin! We are very happy
GalaxCCC: you were able to join us today! : )
GalaxCCC: Jim we are so happy you could be with us today to talk about the important issue of cybersafety and welcome you
JimMc: Glad to be here.
VenusCCC: What are some of the ways as parents and educators we can implement the safe use of the internet and what roles should these people play in determining online time for their children and students?
JimMc: Good question! The first thing is, releasing private information. when I first went on to a BBS (Bulletin Board System) I kept a log, and I charted personal information within 30 days I could identify 80% of the users! Since I could do it I figured sex offenders could do it as well.
JimMc: What can parents do? They can start off by coming up with some personal family rules in the use of the Internet. Feeling comfortable, sharing their experience on the internet within the family.
Shanana: what if you want to meet someone?
JimMc: Shanana, police are suggesting that people NEVER meet people over the Internet for 1 to 1 meetings, even in a public place. You need more safety if you're going to meet someone over the internet we suggest you not go alone.
Shanana: so even in a public place?
JimMc: Yes, Shanana. We've had reports of attempted abductions in these 1 to 1 meetings.
Shanana: so I bring a friend... or 2
JimMc: As many as possible, Shanana! LOL!
YaKiMo: why is everyone so worried about cyberspace?
JimMc: YakiMo, because of recent serious crimes- murders in Vermont and in New Jersey, abductions in New Hampshire, Virginia, and California. To name but a few. Yakimo, that's why.
YaKiMo: You want to know why there are abductions....it is because people are giving out information that they shouldn't be!
JimMc: Yakimo. you're absolutely right!!!
VenusCCC: YaKiMo - well, that's one of the things Jim is here to talk to us about - what information should and shouldn't be given out ;-)
She-Ra: I know you said don't meet people from online, but in cases where you do, what is the best way to meet someone? Because I've had positive online experiences.
JimMc: She-Ra, we suggest with a parent. But at the same time so many teens WON'T abide by that advice.
JimMc: Here's an example. One user said something simple like "I'm going to be 16 tomorrow." she had also given out the city in which she lived. From that the offender found out her complete name from library newspaper archives, then her school, parents' names, and bus route. From that one comment!
Shanana: where is the best place to meet someone?
JimMc: Shanana- a public place during the day- and stay there.
YaKiMo: ok- I know this group and they do IRC war (if you don't know what that is I'll tell you) and they IP bombed this guy over and over- well anyway this kid found out who they were and shot one of them.
JimMc: I'm not familiar with this incident of the potential for violence.
YaKiMo: this stuff is happening and that is why anonymity on the net is important!
JimMc: Anonymity on the net is a myth, Yakimo. I think that's why people commit crime, because they don't think they will be identified. YaKiMo: no why can you find out who I am I think not!!
JimMc: YaKiMo, depending on how you logged on,I can easily find out your account information.
JimMc: some people can figure out your email.
YaKiMo: Man you can't find out who I really am if I wanted you to.
YaKiMo: I could be a bot and you wouldn't know
YaKiMo: not if you are on a anonymous emailer like hotmail
JimMc: That's true. We never identify the person but we can identify the account.
VenusCCC: YaKiMo - I could probably tell you your full name and where you are from inside 5 minutes :-)
JimMc: Hotmail is EASY to resolve.
VenusCCC: She-Ra, you're up again
She-Ra: I'm an older person (don't live with parents anymore) - is there a safe way to meet people from online? I've had positive experiences with meeting dozens of people in public places with friends and such.. was that a wrong decision?
JimMc: She-Ra... it's no different than meeting people from other means. There are positive experiences of course, but the negative experiences could be dire. So be careful, She-Ra.
Shanana: what is the limit to tell anyone online? like, city, state.. what information is safe to give? and what about descriptions of yourself? or pictures?
JimMc: Shanana, the problem with online relationships is that they evolve in minutes unlike in real life. There is a greater risk in making mistakes online.
JimMc: Shanana. One more thing. Common sense has to guide you, along with your experience online, to help you determine what information you release and when and to whom.
YaKiMo: Are you a cyber cop or really hardcore in to the underground scene on the net?
JimMc: YaKiMo, I go onto many different areas on the Net, specifically for child pornography and child abductors. I am a police officer.
zacgirl: how far with information can you go?
JimMc: zacgirl, that's a difficult question to answer. it varies with age, location and length of relationships. All come into play when deciding what to tell another user. How old are you, zacgirl?
JimMc: zacgirl, I'd advise you not to give out ANY information about yourself, and that goes double for any pictures. Okay, zacgirl?
zacgirl: is it o.k. to give out fake information.?
JimMc: zacgirl, it's an ethical decision on your part but if it means protecting yourself go ahead!
JimMc: Next question, Venus.
GalaxCCC: Jim I know someone who is an adult around 35 who gave personal information to a friend who in turn gave it to someone and now is getting threatening phone calls. She lives alone and is scared to death what should she do?
JimMc: GalaxCCC, that's a very common complaint. Giving out phone numbers is a REAL bad idea. A friend today may turn on you tomorrow and hand that number out.
JimMc: GalaxCCC, if the phone calls are threatening, obscene or harassing, she should contact the police where she lives.
SSJ: Jim do you support the loss of anonymity that is slowly occurring? That is after all one of the benefits of the net!
JimMc: SSJ- no! AS a police officer I don't want to interfere with 1st Amendment Rights I'm only concerned with criminal violations.
JimMc: NExt Question, Venus.
Sweetluv: ANYONE WANNA CYBER WITH A 15 YEAR OLD FEMALE 1 2 1 ME!!!!
UCLA: With just the information I gave to get into this web site can anybody track down my whereabouts?
JimMc: Sweetluv. you are a perfect example. look everyone Sweetluv could be anyone male or female young or old There's no telling on the internet and she is soliciting right here.
JimMc: That's what you have to be very careful of.
TIGER15: Who cares, thats the whole thing with this chatting crap. For all you know I could be a 75 year old granny that eats kids and there is no way for you to find out
JimMc: Tiger... who cares? Because chatting sometimes escalates to phone calls, bad email and stalking. That's why you should care.
JimMc: Next question?
VenusCCC: Jim, UCLA asked with just the information I given to get into this web site can anybody track down my whereabouts?
JimMc: UCLA it's possible that you could be identified depending on the way you logged on.
VenusCCC: Jim, with a server like TalkCity, we take measures to protect users anonymity - we mask vital parts of IP addresses, and the people who CAN see them have signed various contracts stating they will not abuse this information. What can people do to protect themselves on less secured servers, where anyone can see your IP address information?
JimMc: Venus.. that's good, because it's going to protect the users from people with bad intentions.
JimMc: Venus, the easiest places to identify users is on IRC. Simple commands like "IDENTIFY" provide you with their ISP, email and IP number.
VenusCCC: right Jim - is there anything a user can do to protect themselves from that?
JimMc: VEnus, they can protect their email but not their ISP or IP.
SSJ: Who do you think should make rules for Internet Regulation?
JimMc: SSJ, individual chat hosts should make their own rules only government interest is when laws are being broken.
JimMc: what does TALKCITY do to harrassers? VEnus... you can answer that one
VenusCCC: Yes I can. TalkCity has many layers of dealing with harassers. They go from the very basic, where a volunteer can remove someone from the room. Or a CCC removing someone and preventing them from talking.
VenusCCC: Higher up you have things that the CSAs can do - they involve removing the person from the server, either temporarily or permanently. We also work with various ISPs to keep track of problem users, and if there is someone who is a repeated problem, we ask the ISP to deal with them
HavanaMama: Venus it's never done though
VenusCCC: Havana .. well, before we can take action, we need PROOF through logs and cut and pastes that the issue has happened
JimMc: Havana, if you have a problem with a specific user... you should talk to Venus after the conference.
VenusCCC: And I, unfortunately, don't know your case, so I can't really give you more specific information :-)
zacgirl: how long does it take for a reported crime to be solved?
JimMc: ZacGirl, anywhere from a few days to a few months. REcently we had a case go 8 months. It was International. A man from Norway who flew into the US with pornography and was arrested.
Contessa: I recently tried to highlight a conversation to report, now I have no idea how I did it. Can you tell me?
JimMc: It sounds like you didn't know how to cut and paste... right? I just cut and paste right into a "notepad" file, Contessa.
Contessa: I had a button show at the bottom of the screen that said transcript
VenusCCC: Contessa - EZTalk users have to use a specific way to cut and paste - the EZTalk client has some issues with it. You can get full details of how to do that in New2Internet, or by writing to .. uhm, let me find the address
JimMc: Thanks, Venus.
Contessa: when I hit that transcript button, it came up and I could highlight to print
JimMc: It's good to document those conversations, though.
VenusCCC: One of the growing issues with the internet is that it is international. How do you prosecute someone who is breaking American law, but not the law of the country they are from/in?
JimMc: Venus, in American law, when people send pornography into the US, even if it's legal in THEIR country, it's illegal in ours, so they can be prosecuted.
VenusCCC: Jim... a lot of people sing the praises of "protective" software, like Surfwatch and NetNanny. Are these effective tools for protection?
JimMc: VEnus... NO! Many teens can outwit those "protective devices.
zacgirl: can people break in to private chat?
JimMc: zacgirl, the chat provider can. I'm unaware of anyone else being able to hack in.
VenusCCC: Jim, many parents are told that they CAN protect via those 'protection' programs, but obviously they are ineffective.
VenusCCC: What do you suggest parents do to help protect their teens and what can people do to better educate parents/teachers ?
JimMc: VEnus, rather than giving details, I'll direct you to a website
JimMc: You'll find a list of advice to parents and kids.
VenusCCC: Ah yes, Jim - the CNN article on that is how I learned of you :-)
JimMc: Thanks for having me here today!
GalaxCCC: Jim Thank You for being here and hope you will return again!
GalaxCCC: Everyone please thank Jim for being our guest today
VenusCCC: Thank you so much for being here, Detective McLaughlin - good luck with your job, I think unfortunately it will keep getting busier :-/
GalaxCCC: Our time is up for today! Thanks
GalaxCCC: to everyone for being here. A very
GalaxCCC: special thanks to our guest,
GalaxCCC: Jim McLaughlin for sharing with us!
GalaxCCC: Join us again Thursday, 3:30pmPT
GalaxCCC: For another exciting Topic at TheInSite
JimMc: Thank you, VenusCCC, GalaxCCC And tiskTISk. I'll be coming back in JUne to help you folks get ready for INternet safety for the summer.